Davy Crockett - Not Yours To Give

[Davy Crockett]

Not Yours To Give (Part One)

Col. David Crockett
U.S. Representative from Tennessee


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Originally published in "The Life of Colonel David Crockett," by Edward Sylvester Ellis


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One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the suffering of the living, if there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member on this floor knows it.

We have the right as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I ever heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation, Crockett gave this explanation:

"Several years ago I was one evening standing on the steps of the Capitol with some members of Congress, when our attention was attracted by a great light over in Georgetown. It was evidently a large fire. We jumped into a hack and drove over as fast as we could. In spite of all that could be done, many houses were burned and many families made houseless, and besides, some of them had lost all but the clothes they had on. The weather was very cold, and when I saw so many children suffering, I felt that something ought to be done for them. The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating $20,000 for their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed it through as soon as it could be done.

"The next summer, when it began to be time to think about election, I concluded I would take a scout around among the boys of my district. I had no opposition there but, as the election was some time off, I did not know what might turn up. When riding one day in a part of my district in which I was more of a stranger than any other, I saw a man in a field plowing and coming toward the road. I gauged my gait so that we should meet as he came up, I spoke to the man. He replied politely, but as I thought, rather coldly.

"I began: 'Well friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called candidates and---

"Yes I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time or mine, I shall not vote for you again."

"This was a sockdologer... I begged him tell me what was the matter.

"Well Colonel, it is hardly worthwhile to waste time or words upon it. I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the Constitution, or that you are wanting in the honesty and firmness to be guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me. But I beg your pardon for expressing it that way. I did not intend to avail myself of the privilege of the constituent to speak plainly to a candidate for the purpose of insulting you or wounding you.'

"I intend by it only to say that your understanding of the constitution is very different from mine; and I will say to you what but for my rudeness, I should not have said, that I believe you to be honest.

But an understanding of the constitution different from mine I cannot overlook, because the Constitution, to be worth anything, must be held sacred, and rigidly observed in all its provisions. The man who wields power and misinterprets it is the more dangerous the honest he is.'

" 'I admit the truth of all you say, but there must be some mistake. Though I live in the backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the papers from Washington and read very carefully all the proceedings of Congress. My papers say you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to some sufferers by fire in Georgetown. Is that true?

"Well my friend; I may as well own up. You have got me there. But certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing treasury, and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just the same as I did.'

(Continued on next post...)

[Davy Crockett]

Not Yours To Give (Part Two)

"It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has nothing with the question. The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue by a tariff, which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor he may be, and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his means.

What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where the weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who can ever guess how much he pays to the government. So you see, that while you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from thousands who are even worse off than he.

If you had the right to give anything, the amount was simply a matter of discretion with you, and you had as much right to give $20,000,000 as $20,000. If you have the right to give at all; and as the Constitution neither defines charity nor stipulates the amount, you are at liberty to give to any and everything which you may believe, or profess to believe, is a charity and to any amount you may think proper. You will very easily perceive what a wide door this would open for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand, and for robbing the people on the other. 'No, Colonel, Congress has no right to give charity.'

"'Individual members may give as much of their own money as they please, but they have no right to touch a dollar of the public money for that purpose. If twice as many houses had been burned in this country as in Georgetown, neither you nor any other member of Congress would have Thought of appropriating a dollar for our relief. There are about two hundred and forty members of Congress. If they had shown their sympathy for the sufferers by contributing each one week's pay, it would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of wealthy men around Washington who could have given $20,000 without depriving themselves of even a luxury of life.'

"The congressmen chose to keep their own money, which, if reports be true, some of them spend not very creditably; and the people about Washington, no doubt, applauded you for relieving them from necessity of giving what was not yours to give. The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution.'

"'So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution in what I consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly, but that does not make it any better, except as far as you are personally concerned, and you see that I cannot vote for you.'

"I tell you I felt streaked. I saw if I should have opposition, and this man should go to talking and in that district I was a gone fawn-skin. I could not answer him, and the fact is, I was so fully convinced that he was right, I did not want to. But I must satisfy him, and I said to him:

"Well, my friend, you hit the nail upon the head when you said I had not sense enough to understand the Constitution. I intended to be guided by it, and thought I had studied it fully. I have heard many speeches in Congress about the powers of Congress, but what you have said here at your plow has got more hard, sound sense in it than all the fine speeches I ever heard. If I had ever taken the view of it that you have, I would have put my head into the fire before I would have given that vote; and if you will forgive me and vote for me again, if I ever vote for another unconstitutional law I wish I may be shot.'

"He laughingly replied; 'Yes, Colonel, you have sworn to that once before, but I will trust you again upon one condition. You are convinced that your vote was wrong. Your acknowledgment of it will do more good than beating you for it. If, as you go around the district, you will tell people about this vote, and that you are satisfied it was wrong, I will not only vote for you, but will do what I can to keep down opposition, and perhaps, I may exert some little influence in that way.'

"If I don't, said I, 'I wish I may be shot; and to convince you that I am in earnest in what I say I will come back this way in a week or ten days, and if you will get up a gathering of people, I will make a speech to them. Get up a barbecue, and I will pay for it.'

"No, Colonel, we are not rich people in this section but we have plenty of provisions to contribute for a barbecue, and some to spare for those who have none. The push of crops will be over in a few days, and we can then afford a day for a barbecue. 'This Thursday; I will see to getting it up on Saturday week. Come to my house on Friday, and we will go together, and I promise you a very respectable crowd to see and hear you.

"'Well I will be here. But one thing more before I say good-bye. I must know your name."

"'My name is Bunce.'

"'Not Horatio Bunce?'

"'Yes

"'Well, Mr. Bunce, I never saw you before, though you say you have seen me, but I know you very well. I am glad I have met you, and very proud that I may hope to have you for my friend.'

[Davy Crockett]

Not Yours To Give (Part Three)

"It was one of the luckiest hits of my life that I met him. He mingled but little with the public, but was widely known for his remarkable intelligence, and for a heart brim-full and running over with kindness and benevolence, which showed themselves not only in words but in acts. He was the oracle of the whole country around him, and his fame had extended far beyond the circle of his immediate acquaintance. Though I had never met him, before, I had heard much of him, and but for this meeting it is very likely I should have had opposition, and had been beaten. One thing is very certain, no man could now stand up in that district under such a vote.

"At the appointed time I was at his house, having told our conversation to every crowd I had met, and to every man I stayed all night with, and I found that it gave the people an interest and confidence in me stronger than I had ever seen manifested before.

"Though I was considerably fatigued when I reached his house, and, under ordinary circumstances, should have gone early to bed, I kept him up until midnight talking about the principles and affairs of government, and got more real, true knowledge of them than I had got all my life before."

"I have known and seen much of him since, for I respect him - no, that is not the word - I reverence and love him more than any living man, and I go to see him two or three times every year; and I will tell you, sir, if every one who professes to be a Christian lived and acted and enjoyed it as he does, the religion of Christ would take the world by storm.

"But to return to my story. The next morning we went to the barbecue and, to my surprise, found about a thousand men there. I met a good many whom I had not known before, and they and my friend introduced me around until I had got pretty well acquainted - at least, they all knew me.

"In due time notice was given that I would speak to them. They gathered up around a stand that had been erected. I opened my speech by saying:

"Fellow-citizens - I present myself before you today feeling like a new man. My eyes have lately been opened to truths which ignorance or prejudice or both, had heretofore hidden from my view. I feel that I can today offer you the ability to render you more valuable service than I have ever been able to render before. I am here today more for the purpose of acknowledging my error than to seek your votes. That I should make this acknowledgment is due to myself as well as to you. Whether you will vote for me is a matter for your consideration only."

"I went on to tell them about the fire and my vote for the appropriation and then told them why I was satisfied it was wrong. I closed by saying:

"And now, fellow-citizens, it remains only for me to tell you that the most of the speech you have listened to with so much interest was simply a repetition of the arguments by which your neighbor, Mr. Bunce, convinced me of my error.

"It is the best speech I ever made in my life, but he is entitled to the credit for it. And now I hope he is satisfied with his convert and that he will get up here and tell you so.'

"He came up to the stand and said:

"Fellow-citizens - it affords me great pleasure to comply with the request of Colonel Crockett. I have always considered him a thoroughly honest man, and I am satisfied that he will faithfully perform all that he has promised you today.'

"He went down, and there went up from that crowd such a shout for Davy Crockett as his name never called forth before.'

"I am not much given to tears, but I was taken with a choking then and felt some big drops rolling down my cheeks. And I tell you now that the remembrance of those few words spoken by such a man, and the honest, hearty shout they produced, is worth more to me than all the honors I have received and all the reputation I have ever made, or ever shall make, as a member of Congress.'

"Now, sir," concluded Crockett, "you know why I made that speech yesterday. "There is one thing which I will call your attention, "you remember that I proposed to give a week's pay. There are in that House many very wealthy men - men who think nothing of spending a week's pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they have something to accomplish by it. Some of those same men made beautiful speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the country owed the deceased -- a debt which could not be paid by money -- and the insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so insignificant a sum as $20,000 when weighed against the honor of the nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it."

[Davy Crockett]

Greetings everyone, I have chosen as my user name, Davy Crockett, one of the finest men our nation has produced.

Hope you all enjoyed a snippet from his life and how people back then were civilized and decent towards each other. How individuals were not afraid to speak their minds; and others, even in dissagreement would still hear a person out before making a reply.

Hope to find that type of civility here on this forum.

Rev. Randolph

[son of stone]

Greetings everyone, I have chosen as my user name, Davy Crockett, one of the finest men our nation has produced.

Hope you all enjoyed a snippet from his life and how people back then were civilized and decent towards each other. How individuals were not afraid to speak their minds; and others, even in disagreement would still hear a person out before making a reply.

Hope to find that type of civility here on this forum.

Rev. Randolph


My eyes started bleeding when I read those first few post. Help me next time by being a little bit more concise. Besides that, let me say, "you picked a good screen name." I still wished I had my coon skin cap!

[Gray]

With all due respect, I find it extremely difficult to believe that if Congress simply did away with all entitlement, social welfare, disaster relief, and domestic and foreign aid programs, all of those billions upon billions of dollars would be made up for by "charitable giving." I haven't seen a shred of evidence to support that theory.

[Ripshod]

It's starting to smell in here. I just caught the faint wisp of a spoiled storm front.

[KO]

http://possumblog.mu.nu/images/davy%20crockett.jpg

[Davy Crockett]

My eyes started bleeding when I read those first few post. Help me next time by being a little bit more concise. Besides that, let me say, "you picked a good screen name." I still wished I had my coon skin cap!

And remember to keep your powder dry. :)

I realize that many folks nowadays do not read as much anymore. Just take your time reading it and I realize that reading for long periods of time are hard on the eyes. But this story is worth reading in its entirety.

[Chester A. Arthur]

With all due respect, I find it extremely difficult to believe that if Congress simply did away with all entitlement, social welfare, disaster relief, and domestic and foreign aid programs, all of those billions upon billions of dollars would be made up for by "charitable giving." I haven't seen a shred of evidence to support that theory.

Have you ever worked for the government? I worked for an organization that provided services for indigent people which was funded by tax dollars. I later worked for another organization doing the same thing which was funded by a private charity. The difference in mental attitude was like night and day. When you work for the government you know the money will continue coming in almost no matter what. The money comes from "the government", so there is no sense that you have to account for it. When you are involved with a private organization you feel you need to produce results or they will find someone else who will. There is no sense that the money will always be there whether or not you produce anything.

I'm not an advocate of privatization but the system we have in place does not work and hasn't worked for a very long time (if it ever did).

[spinetingler]

Have you ever worked for the government?

I have, and I do.


When you work for the government you know the money will continue coming in almost no matter what. The money comes from "the government", so there is no sense that you have to account for it.

Absolutely incorrect. Every year you are subject to the budgeting process, which might mean you get an increase, no increase, a cut, or eliminated. I've been through each of those four in government jobs.

[son of stone]

http://possumblog.mu.nu/images/davy%20crockett.jpg


great post! I liked watch him on TV.

[Davy Crockett]

With all due respect, I find it extremely difficult to believe that if Congress simply did away with all entitlement, social welfare, disaster relief, and domestic and foreign aid programs, all of those billions upon billions of dollars would be made up for by "charitable giving." I haven't seen a shred of evidence to support that theory.

But no one has any sympathy for the struggling family man who's paycheck is reduced, unconstitutionally, to support others.

Life is full of risks and there will always be those who will have a tougher road to travel. When I first moved down to Knoxville, I was by no means well off and was looking forward to building a good life here. As they say, life happens, and I found myself without a home and a job.

Instead of going to the welfare office, I immediately went to one of those daily work places, and took any job that was available to me. Of course this was a bit humiliating, especially for someone like me with a college degree. However, living off of others is even more humiliating.

The foreman of the construction site, seeing that I was a decent man, agreed to allow me to live in my van on his property and ran an extension cord from the horse barn to my van so that I could have some heat. Mind you, I lived in that van from January to April, going to a local truck stop for showers to keep myself clean.

Sure it was tough, but I made it through without any charity or governmental handouts. And now I live in a beautiful home with a view of the Smoky Mountains that you all would be jealous of.

Not only is charity and governmental handouts unconstituational, it is also harmful to the recipient. It takes away from him or her that opportunity in life to show themselves what they are made of. The times in our lives where we can build character.

Rev. Randolph

[Ripshod]

Kitty says, "Bless you, white boy".

http://vwt.d2g.com:8081/Kosher.Kitty.jpg

[Davy Crockett]

It's starting to smell in here. I just caught the faint wisp of a spoiled storm front.

I am confused. The topic of the thread is about the unconstitutional taking from one's paycheck to pay for someone else's misfortune.

"spoiled storm front" - Never heard of this phrase, please clue me in.

[Ripshod]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x234/ctbob/douche.jpg

[Davy Crockett]

I see we have a comedian. Sorry, your jokes are in bad taste and are fine examples of the uncivil behavior that we have, unwisely, allowed in our society today.

If you have something to say, by all means, do state it.

[Johnny Ringo]

I see we have a comedian. Sorry, your jokes are in bad taste and are fine examples of the uncivil behavior that we have, unwisely, allowed in our society today.

If you have something to say, by all means, do state it.

OK I'll say it. Lately we've had an influx of lame, pathetic thumbsucking Nazi wannabes. Now, we have come to understand that said lame Nazi wannabes have learned how to look respectable. They proclaim their opposition to the Iraq war, for example, to try to get in with the lefties. They proclaim their respect for the Constitution and for limited government, in order to get in with the righties.

But it's all a smokescreen. They hate the Iraq war because they think it helps the Jooos. They like "limited government" because it's federal RICO laws that have busted up their hate groups and federal civil rights laws that stand in the way of their desire for a racially "separate" society.

They think they are quite clever, and that we, on the right and on the left, are quite stupid. And Davy you kinda look like one of those guys to me. And the fact that we've seen Justin's posts on Stormfront asking for assistance on this board, combined with the sudden influx of new members spouting all the things I've listed above, leads a lot of us to the conclusion that you and Arthur and the others are either Justin's sock puppets or some more examples of the pathetic remnants of a failed ideology that should have been buried along with your fucking Fuhrer.

So what I'd really like to do, as politely as I can, is ask you to leave. We're really not that stupid, and you're really not that clever. You are not making any "headway" here. No one wants you, and I say that as probably the most right-wing non-Nazi on this here board.

So take your swastikas and your well-worn copies of Mein Kampf and the Protocols and just go. I'm supposed to be the bad guy here, and you guys are making me look good.

[Chester A. Arthur]

Absolutely incorrect. Every year you are subject to the budgeting process, which might mean you get an increase, no increase, a cut, or eliminated. I've been through each of those four in government jobs.

You are right budgets do go up and down, numbers do change. Your dept. or agency may have it's budget changed on perceived needs or other factors. I can't argue with that. The point I was trying to make is once a system has become entrenched and is almost impossible to get rid of even if doesn't serve the needs it is supposed to. The hearings on the FDA Heparin scandal spring to mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT7UGrfxNYg . Even after a large public failure, even when the head of the organization is being called to task, the question is still "How much more do we need to pay you for you to do what your organization is set up to do". I think here in America we have a problem with throwing money at an ugly complex situation, and then turning our backs and hoping it will go away.

When we find out that schools are graduating kids who can't read, we look at the problem, become hopeless after looking at the causes, maybe increase their budget and hope that it might work. It's like continually repairing an old car, you can temporarily patch it up but it doesn't fix the underlying cause of your problems. You would be better off buying a new one but you continue to fix up the old one because you don't have the money for a new one and are afraid of taking a risk on something unknown.

We will never scrap a part of the government because they failed us. We might replace the head of the agency and some of his people but we won't can the whole operation. As long as an organization knows it is the only game in town it has no reason to excel.

[Ripshod]

If you have something to say, by all means, do state it.

One thing I will say - I never knew that David Crockett was such an asshole. I guess it just goes to show you can't trust Disney to do an honest biography.

[Ripshod]

I see we have a comedian. Sorry, your jokes are in bad taste and are fine examples of the uncivil behavior that we have, unwisely, allowed in our society today.

Allow this, fuckface!

http://www.superhobo.net/images/fuck-off-smokers.jpg

[Davy Crockett]

OK I'll say it.....


Oh, so that's it. It will also explain the very nasty comments that I have received from others.

Thanks for the warm welcome. (roll eyes)

I am just a hard working man who also happens to be a reverend without a congregation down here.

My only interests is talking about life, politics, and what has happened to our wonderful country over the last 30 years.

Grew up in a small conservative town in mid-Michigan and do not know many people down here.

From what I have seen so far...many of you need to take a step back and start reflecting on our nation and what we need to do to return to the days when America was a beacon to the world.

[Davy Crockett]

[QUOTE=Ripshod;245871]Allow this, fuckface!

Been here just one day and I already have a member for my fanclub here.

Rev. Randolph

[JustinMorningWay]

Allow this, fuckface!

http://www.superhobo.net/images/fuck-off-smokers.jpg

Is that your picture? You look like you need a bath.

[relentless1]

And now I live in a beautiful home with a view of the Smoky Mountains that you all would be jealous of.


Well, that's a hell of an assumption, isn't it? Seriously, do you really know so much about every person that posts here that you can assume that we'd all want what you have? Your great view doesn't mean shit to me.

[Davy Crockett]

Well, that's a hell of an assumption, isn't it? Seriously, do you really know so much about every person that posts here that you can assume that we'd all want what you have? Your great view doesn't mean shit to me.


From the tone of your post, it seems that you need to take a walk in the woods more often.

[Chester A. Arthur]

OK I'll say it. Lately we've had an influx of lame, pathetic thumbsucking Nazi wannabes. Now, we have come to understand that said lame Nazi wannabes have learned how to look respectable. They proclaim their opposition to the Iraq war, for example, to try to get in with the lefties. They proclaim their respect for the Constitution and for limited government, in order to get in with the righties.

But it's all a smokescreen. They hate the Iraq war because they think it helps the Jooos. They like "limited government" because it's federal RICO laws that have busted up their hate groups and federal civil rights laws that stand in the way of their desire for a racially "separate" society.

They think they are quite clever, and that we, on the right and on the left, are quite stupid. And Davy you kinda look like one of those guys to me. And the fact that we've seen Justin's posts on Stormfront asking for assistance on this board, combined with the sudden influx of new members spouting all the things I've listed above, leads a lot of us to the conclusion that you and Arthur and the others are either Justin's sock puppets or some more examples of the pathetic remnants of a failed ideology that should have been buried along with your fucking Fuhrer.

So what I'd really like to do, as politely as I can, is ask you to leave. We're really not that stupid, and you're really not that clever. You are not making any "headway" here. No one wants you, and I say that as probably the most right-wing non-Nazi on this here board.

So take your swastikas and your well-worn copies of Mein Kampf and the Protocols and just go. I'm supposed to be the bad guy here, and you guys are making me look good.

Wow they sound like a bunch of paranoid, xenophobic, whack jobs afraid of new ideas. I'm surprised some of you guys have a problem with them, judging by some of the responses here perhaps you should combine boards. If someone is coming onto a board to jerk your chain for some laughs I can understand being annoyed. But some of you come off like a farmer in overalls, with a piece of straw in his mouth, clutching a gun and saying "we don't like outsiders around these parts".

Perhaps I missed something but I haven't seen any swasticas or love poems to Adolf posted. Maybe there was stuff that I didn't see that got deleted, I don't know. But as far as I can tell the guy posted some fable about dear old Davey Crockett and you guys started calling him all sorts of names.

If there are a bunch of inbred whack jobs who want to destroy everyone not like them while enjoying a sense of self superiority on this board, I would suggest some of you look in the mirror before throwing out insults and accusations.

Oh wait I might be a plant from Hitler's meteorologists so you should disregard anything I say.

[Johnny Ringo]

Oh wait I might be a plant from Hitler's meteorologists so you should disregard anything I say.

Thanks. I planned to.

[spinetingler]

Perhaps I missed something but I haven't seen any swasticas or love poems to Adolf posted.


You've somehow missed the link to stormfront at the bottom of every JMW post?
Pull your muttonchops out of your eyes Chester.

[JustinMorningWay]

You've somehow missed the link to stormfront at the bottom of every JMW post?
Pull your muttonchops out of your eyes Chester.

Oh, come on now. There aren't that many swastikas on Stormfront. How is linking to Stormfront such a bad thing. What, are you worried about people gaining a different perspective other than your own. You zionists/liberals are all about free speech as long as people say and think what you tell the too.

[spinetingler]

There aren't that many swastikas on Stormfront.

Your honor, I only shot him twice. The gun holds six shots.

[Davy Crockett]

But as far as I can tell the guy posted some fable about dear old Davey Crockett and you guys started calling him all sorts of names.

If there are a bunch of inbred whack jobs who want to destroy everyone not like them while enjoying a sense of self superiority on this board, I would suggest some of you look in the mirror before throwing out insults and accusations.

Oh wait I might be a plant from Hitler's meteorologists so you should disregard anything I say.

Thank you.

Now, I may not be your typical funhouserock type of guy. But as a reverend, I like to get to know how all kinds of people think, and I find meeting and talking with all types of people fascinating.

I have been in a Hispanic coffee house in Detroit and met with the Green Party in what is called Mexican Village. I have also been a guest at the home of two sisters who have been members of the Nation of Islam since the early 1940s. You name the group, I have met with most of them. And yes, I have attended some white supremacist gatherings.

In my life, I have always been curious as to why people think the way they do and instead of reading someone else's opinion, I went and found out for myself who these people are that belong to the different factions in our society.

As a board member of a nonprofit and as an employee of a human rights department, I have rubbed elbows with a who's who in politics and activism. Throught it all, I have honestly come to my own conclusions without some newspaper editor telling me what to think.

I can be a wealth of information for you all and it will all come out through stories and antedotes from my life's experiences.

Martha Reeves still drives that 1965 Mercedes that she bought with the money she made on her first number one hit.

Stevie Wonder cannot go anywhere with his V-8.

Yes, Jesse Jackson can't keep his mouth shut for one minute.

There are some very intelligent Klansmen, and them there are some incredibly dense ones also.

A professor of philosophy recently invited me to dinner and we discussed many different issues, four hours that went by too fast.

Remember a lunch with a muslim daughter to a diplomat of Bangladesh.

Took a young lady from Moscow on a trip to northern Michigan and learn about Russia.

I could go on for another hour on the types of people that I have met and talked with. All of you should do the same. Do not limit yourself to just your own group. Muhamed Ali once said that if a person has the same ideas at the age of 40 that they had when they were 20, they didn't learn a damn thing. By the way, met him too. After our discussion, Mrs. Ali was in tears when I reminded Ali of a time when, at Detroit's Metro Airport when the aiport was shut down, before he went to his hotel room, Ali made sure that the airport provided everyone with a blanket and food for the night. Two days after Mr. Ali and I talked, I was reading about him in another country helping the earthquake victims. (I think it was back in '93 or '94)

The lesson that I have learned is to keep an open mind.

[Mykhailo]

Pull your muttonchops out of your eyes Chester. http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dbu0055l.jpg

[relentless1]

From the tone of your post, it seems that you need to take a walk in the woods more often.

I do it quite often. Probably way more than you do, since you know, I have to go looking for my view.

[Ripshod]

Oh, come on now. There aren't that many swastikas on Stormfront. How is linking to Stormfront such a bad thing. What, are you worried about people gaining a different perspective other than your own. You zionists/liberals are all about free speech as long as people say and think what you tell the too.

"Not that many swastikas", huh? Oh, that's funny.

We are all for your freedom of speech. You're still posting,aren't you? You don't have the right to feel welcome. We counter your insane babble with more speech.

No one here is interested in your stupidity masquerading as studious truth. If you want a rosy reception, take it back to skinheads.com where you came from.

[spinetingler]

Thank you.

Now, I may not be your typical funhouserock type of guy. But as a reverend, I like to get to know how all kinds of people think, and I find meeting and talking with all types of people fascinating.

I have been in a Hispanic coffee house in Detroit and met with the Green Party in what is called Mexican Village. I have also been a guest at the home of two sisters who have been members of the Nation of Islam since the early 1940s. You name the group, I have met with most of them. And yes, I have attended some white supremacist gatherings.

In my life, I have always been curious as to why people think the way they do and instead of reading someone else's opinion, I went and found out for myself who these people are that belong to the different factions in our society.

As a board member of a nonprofit and as an employee of a human rights department, I have rubbed elbows with a who's who in politics and activism. Throught it all, I have honestly come to my own conclusions without some newspaper editor telling me what to think.

I can be a wealth of information for you all and it will all come out through stories and antedotes from my life's experiences.

Martha Reeves still drives that 1965 Mercedes that she bought with the money she made on her first number one hit.

Stevie Wonder cannot go anywhere with his V-8.

Yes, Jesse Jackson can't keep his mouth shut for one minute.

There are some very intelligent Klansmen, and them there are some incredibly dense ones also.

A professor of philosophy recently invited me to dinner and we discussed many different issues, four hours that went by too fast.

Remember a lunch with a muslim daughter to a diplomat of Bangladesh.

Took a young lady from Moscow on a trip to northern Michigan and learn about Russia.

I could go on for another hour on the types of people that I have met and talked with. All of you should do the same. Do not limit yourself to just your own group. Muhamed Ali once said that if a person has the same ideas at the age of 40 that they had when they were 20, they didn't learn a damn thing. By the way, met him too. After our discussion, Mrs. Ali was in tears when I reminded Ali of a time when, at Detroit's Metro Airport when the aiport was shut down, before he went to his hotel room, Ali made sure that the airport provided everyone with a blanket and food for the night. Two days after Mr. Ali and I talked, I was reading about him in another country helping the earthquake victims. (I think it was back in '93 or '94)

The lesson that I have learned is to keep an open mind.

At least the Rev can spell and compose a sentence.


Of course, I'm not sure that I believe a word of that, but time will tell.

[Ripshod]

... as a reverend, ...

I knew there was something I didn't like about you.

I don't remember anyone asking for your resume'.

[jmcnair]

At least the Rev can spell and compose a sentence.

"stories and antedotes"

Nope. Not that either.

[Davy Crockett]

I knew there was something I didn't like about you.

I don't remember anyone asking for your resume'.

You just have not figured out what church I am from. Clue: It is not Christian dumbass.

[Ripshod]

You just have not figured out what church I am from. Clue: It is not Christian dumbass.

I wasn't trying to figure it out and I don't care.

[spinetingler]

"stories and antedotes"

Nope. Not that either.

Whoops!
Missed it by that much!

[Johnny Ringo]

You just have not figured out what church I am from. Clue: It is not Christian dumbass.

I don't know about Christian dumbass, but I've certainly heard of Christian Identity. And I'd have to agree - there's not much about it that's "Christian."

[relentless1]

You just have not figured out what church I am from. Clue: It is not Christian dumbass.

Somebody needs a walk in the woods. :p

[Ripshod]

Somebody needs a walk in the woods. :p

Yeah. Davy's getting a little hot under the collar now, huh?

Look out Crockett, your hood is slipping.

[Mountain Girl]

"stories and antedotes"

Nope. Not that either.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/TNJed/fail.jpg

Not typically the smartest group of folks.

[Ripshod]

I don't know about Christian dumbass, but I've certainly heard of Christian Identity. And I'd have to agree - there's not much about it that's "Christian."

Heh. "Christian dumbass". Heh heh.

[Davy Crockett]

"stories and antedotes"

Nope. Not that either.

Haven't found the spell checker on this forum yet. But if the only fault you can find with me is a few misspelled words, then I must be doing ok.

Tried to be nice and civil, but now that I have the gist of this forum, I will take the white gloves off.

I stated that I am a reverend, but you all assumed that I was a Christian reverend. My, my, my...one should have seen the hatred that the jews have shown towards me so far with their comments as they repped me.

For now, I will let you all guess my religion. Clue number two: my religion is based on history, logic, and common sense.

[Davy Crockett]

I don't know about Christian dumbass, but I've certainly heard of Christian Identity. And I'd have to agree - there's not much about it that's "Christian."

CI is just as bad as your other Christian churches. Strike one.

[Ripshod]

Haven't found the spell checker on this forum yet. But if the only fault you can find with me is a few misspelled words, then I must be doing ok.
It's not a spelling error, idiot. You're using the wrong words. And if you really think that's the only problem we have with you, then you can't read either.


Tried to be nice and civil, but now that I have the gist of this forum, I will take the white gloves off.

I stated that I am a reverend, but you all assumed that I was a Christian reverend. My, my, my...one should have seen the hatred that the jews have shown towards me so far with their comments as they repped me.

For now, I will let you all guess my religion. Clue number two: my religion is based on history, logic, and common sense.
Nobody gives a shit.

[Davy Crockett]

Heh. "Christian dumbass". Heh heh.

Can't dissagree with Christians being dumbasses. Maybe I will post an article in the future that even you will like.

[The_Editor]

IGNORE YOU.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/bluereenie/cute_hedgehog.jpg

[Ripshod]

Can't dissagree with Christians being dumbasses. Maybe I will post an article in the future that even you will like.

Crockett's Brain: "Damn, I jus' foun me a writhin' NEST o' jooze here."

[Mountain Girl]

Haven't found the spell checker on this forum yet.

For now, I will let you all guess my religion.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/TNJed/satin.jpg

[Davy Crockett]

It's not a spelling error, idiot. You're using the wrong words.


Nobody gives a shit.

Except you. You have seem to take an interest in me today. Jewish paranoia?

Clue number two: I am your worst nightmare and now have a church in your area.

[Davy Crockett]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/TNJed/satin.jpg

Strike two. I did however know the man who helped Lavan rewrite his Satanic Bible.

[Davy Crockett]

Crockett's Brain: "Damn, I jus' foun me a writhin' NEST o' jooze here."

Kike is the word I would use. That is clue number three.

[relentless1]

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/8476/rainkane2.jpg
http://www.scaryforkids.com/pics/poltergeist.jpg

[Ripshod]

This has been really fun and all, but I know I shouldn't feed the trolls and sometimes I just can't help it.

Ya'll blabbers have a good weekend. I'm going out to find some good twisty roads to dance upon. See you all on Monday. Hopefully this infestation will have been cleaned out by then.

[son of stone]

Allow this, fuckface!

http://www.superhobo.net/images/fuck-off-smokers.jpg

You shouldn't post pictures of your mom on this site. It is not Kosher. I love the way your mom opens her mouth like that, but I do wish she would shave.

[Davy Crockett]

Clue number four: One of your chief rabbis have stated in a major publication that my religion has the potential to be the greatest threat in America today if it ever catches on with the white people in America.

[son of stone]

This has been really fun and all, but I know I shouldn't feed the trolls and sometimes I just can't help it.

Ya'll blabbers have a good weekend. I'm going out to find some good twisty roads to dance upon. See you all on Monday. Hopefully this infestation will have been cleaned out by then.


You little twit, no one finds you funny. I find you to be quite consistent with your IQ. You are a tormented little dweeb who is suffering from short DxxK syndrome.

You may want to go back to school and realize that just because you are anti-goyistic, doesn't mean you are funny. Many people are opening their eyes to clowns like you.

[spinetingler]

For now, I will let you all guess my religion. Clue number two: my religion is based on history, logic, and common sense.

Atheist?

Not really a religion.

[spinetingler]

One of your chief rabbis


I don't really think there are many, if any, Jews who post here with any regularity.

Perhaps you have us confused with some other message board.

[The_Editor]

Mean ol' Mr. Hedgehog has to ignore Mr. Stone too!
3 in one day!
Mean ol' Hedgehog.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/bluereenie/cute_hedgehog.jpg

[Davy Crockett]

Atheist?

Not really a religion.

No, but close. And it is not agnostic either.

Clue number five:

Once I hold a meeting in Knoxville, we already have a place of our own, the jews will go ape shit.

[spinetingler]

I will take the white gloves off.

Of course they're white.

[Davy Crockett]

Keep those red reps coming. It is a badge of honor and I want to set the record on this forum.

Clue number seven: One of our slogans is "Delinda Est Judaica!"

[Johnny Ringo]

Clue number four: One of your chief rabbis have stated in a major publication that my religion has the potential to be the greatest threat in America today if it ever catches on with the white people in America.

Here's Clue #6 - now that you've exposed yourself as being exactly what I accused you of being, we can all now happily ignore you. Thanks for playing.

[Tess]

I don't really think there are many, if any, Jews who post here with any regularity.

Perhaps you have us confused with some other message board.

Well, you might be wrong about that one, Spiney.

Knoxville has a pretty good-sized Jewish population. We are a lot more diverse than you might think. :)

[Tennessee Jed]

I have always enjoyed the Davy Crockett "not yours to give" story as it does outline a true conservative point of view...now it seems so ugly coming from your viewpoint.

Davy, I know it is futile to say to you and your brothers that having hate for fellow humans who have it worse, the same, or slightly better than you is a manipulative trap that is as old as prostitution is in the business world.

I had to try.

[Davy Crockett]

Here's Clue #5 - now that you've exposed yourself as being exactly what I accused you of being, we can all now happily ignore you. Thanks for playing.


Clue number eight: If you leave now and ignore me, you will be doing the same thing that you accused the world of in the 1920s and 1930s with whom I regard as the White Race's finest leader of all time.

Clue number nine: We also have our own bible which will be delivered to the young white men and women by the hundreds over the next year.

[spinetingler]

Well, you might be wrong about that one, Spiney.

Knoxville has a pretty good-sized Jewish population. We are a lot more diverse than you might think. :)

Well, I meant the Blab specifically. The pests seem to think it's a nest of librul joos.
Maybe they're using Jew in the sense of anyone to the left of Atilla.

[relentless1]

Ok, I finally did it. I now have 4 people on my ignore list. I'm kind of excited about it, because I was beginning to think I'd never get to use that feature.
G'nite!

[Davy Crockett]

Well, I meant the Blab specifically. The pests seem to think it's a nest of librul joos.
Maybe they're using Jew in the sense of anyone to the left of Atilla.


They are even giving me reps:

Davy Crockett - Not... 07-10-2008 04:49 PM metulj Hail Mosciach! Rebbe to the World!

[Davy Crockett]

Ok, I finally did it. I now have 4 people on my ignore list. I'm kind of excited about it, because I was beginning to think I'd never get to use that feature.
G'nite!

Good night. And thank you for giving me the forum.

[The_Editor]

Ok, I finally did it. I now have 4 people on my ignore list. I'm kind of excited about it, because I was beginning to think I'd never get to use that feature.
G'nite!

Welcome!
It's nice, huh?

[spinetingler]

They are even giving me reps:

Davy Crockett - Not... 07-10-2008 04:49 PM metulj Hail Mosciach! Rebbe to the World!

yeah, um, don't count your butterflies until they de-cocoon.

[spinetingler]

thank you for giving me the forum.

It's only a loaner.
Just remember that it can be taken away.

[Johnny Ringo]

It's amazing how quickly they drop the "Nazi? Who me?" act when they understand that you know what they are.

This thread should be a real education for anyone who has never seen these creeps in action.

[Davy Crockett]

Clue number ten: If you all visit this website in the near future, you will find out who I am:

http://creativitymovement.net/

[Sock Puppet]

Clue number ten: If you all visit this website in the near future, you will find out who I am:

http://creativitymovement.net/

Say don't you run a gun blog?

[spinetingler]

Clue number ten: If you all visit this website in the near future, you will find out who I am:

http://creativitymovement.net/

Oh damn, that was funny!
I wish I had all night to devote to laughter, but sadly I have other tasks - there's a huge hunk of meat on the grill, for one.
Pork, BTW.

[Mountain Girl]

I had no idea. I'm all for the gay pride thing, but the nazi thing has got to go.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/TNJed/gaynazi.jpg

^Image straight from his site.^

[trancendyce]

I had no idea. I'm all for the gay pride thing, but the nazi thing has got to go.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1/TNJed/gaynazi.jpg

^Image straight from his site.^

have you seen this one? i don't even know what to think about it.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f170/lane1979/dude.jpg

[phobus1x9]

Wish I have a photo of one of those creepy Don Knazi marches, where they all dress like Mayberry deputies, and each one does a pratfall every dozen steps or so.